Days that seem so unimportant...
They seem to matter, but to count much later on.
That's a line from a Genesis song.
Anyway, I'm pretty drunk right now. I just got home from a neighbor's wedding and I drank a lot. Open bar, you know. So I drove home with a friend of mine whom I've known all my life. He's hot and just go divorced. I'm pretty sure he's not gay though, so I won't bother. There was this girl at the reception that is pretty cool though, and I think she likes me, so maybe there is some chance after all. I'm on my way over to the neighbor's house for an apres-reception party. Hopefully she'll be there. Or some hot dude. Only jesus can tell what I'm really interested in at the moment. 4 minutes later it changes anyway.
Long live Jesus! Well, Live Jesus At All... and then after that.... Long Live Jesus.
Filed in: Drunk • Babbling
posted by Myles at
7:10 PM
8 Comments:
Hi Myles
You sound sometimes confused, sometimes sad, and sometimes like the world doesn't understand you ; or you it, and the answers lie somewhere between beer and Jesus.
I was wondering if you would mind if I prayed for you?
God bless
Dave
6:28 PM EST
Well, I can't tell you what to do. But I can tell you that I think it's a waste of time and you'd be better off reading a history book or just thinking about the world with a wider perspective. I've stated before that there is no Jesus. There's no little man in the sky with powers and a desire to control you. But if it makes you happy to pray to jesus, go ahead. I'll pray to Jupiter, Mars and Quirinus for you. Or don't you also believe in them?
7:02 PM EST
Hi Myles
"I've stated before that there is no Jesus. There's no little man in the sky with powers and a desire to control you. But if it makes you happy to pray to jesus, go ahead.
Christians of many kinds are working hard for growth and have a wide range of programs to train believers for outreach. But one worker says, ‘What has happened in China is not the result of intensive training, but is a mighty movement of God’s Spirit!’ • Along with the growth have come many amazing reports of miracles, healings, angelic visitations, divine interventions—even stories of people being raised from the dead. There are also reports of demons, demonic possession and the presence of evil. • The stories may sound unbelievable to us in the West, but they mirror events described in the New Testament. • Some of these amazing stories follow. These are not legends from unknown sources. They are first-person testimonials taken directly from the people involved in widely varying locations across China. • Christian workers from the West either have been participants in the events described or spoken directly to those telling the stories. ...
“Many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles.” —Acts 2:43b (NIV)
During a house-church service in northern China, a Christian woman noticed one of the brothers had legs so crippled he could not walk.
She recalls what happened next.
“I said, ‘Why don’t we get together and pray for him?’
“We gathered around him, prayed and immediately this crippled brother got up and started to walk! When the believers saw this they were so excited they jumped around and danced in jubilation because of the goodness and the power of our Lord.
“I saw this brother recently, and he is the picture of perfect health!”
“... telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus.” —Acts 11:20 (NIV)
When Christian house churches send out evangelists, they go with backing from elderly women who stay behind to pray and worship.
These women often prostrate themselves on the floor during prayer meetings and weep as they intercede for the lost and wrestle in the Spirit on behalf of those going out to share the gospel of Christ.
One elderly man, Luke, was an evangelist who went to a village where no one followed Christ. When he knocked on one door, the people there angrily drove him out of the village.
Luke found a quiet place and earnestly prayed for that family. Then he went back to the same house. The second time the family threw water on him and with angry words and threats again drove him from the area.
Again Luke prayed for the family, believing it was not God’s will that any should perish, including this one family. A third time he went back to the house and told them they must repent and believe in God’s Son.
This time the family members violently beat Luke. They cursed him for his stubbornness. They drove him from the village again—this time soaked in blood and suffering from wounds they had inflicted on him.
Luke took seven days to recover from the beating. Then he returned to the same house. This time the owner of the house did not oppose him.
Amazed that the old man would return again, the father of the family agreed they should all sit down and listen to what he had to tell them. As Luke preached the gospel to the entire extended family, all of them received Jesus Christ.
http://archives.tconline.org/Stories/June02/vignette5.htm
"They will especially hunt those in Beijing," the source said. "It took them by surprise that there were so many Christians in China. Every week pastors are arrested and thrown in jail. The communists see Christians as a threat because there are [more] Christians than Party members."
According to experts, estimates of the total number of Christians varies widely from 30 million to 100 million. The government-registered Christian church (Three Self Patriotic Movement) includes about 28 million followers. There may be as many as 80 million Christians in unregistered congregations. According to Operation World, independent Christian congregations, mostly evangelical and charismatic, are growing at a rate of 9 percent annually. That's a huge growth rate since China's overall population (1.3 billion) is growing at about 0.6 percent annually. China's constitution guarantees freedom of religious belief but requires all religious organizations to register with the government. The government brands those groups that do not register as "illegal" or "cults."
Home > Christianity Today Magazine > Hot Issues > Persecution
Christianity Today, Week of February 16
China Arrests Dozens of Prominent Christians
At least 50 detained in fresh crackdown on house churches, reportedly promoted by new video and book releases.
By Timothy C. Morgan with David Neff in Washington, D.C. | posted 02/18/2004
China's Public Security Bureau has launched a new crackdown on unregistered church leaders, arresting 50 or more people following the release of a new video and book, documenting huge growth among Christians outside the officially permitted church.
In mid-February, the China Aid Association confirmed that in January police arrested three prominent Protestant leaders from Henan province, including Qiao Chunling, 41, in Luoyang; Deborah Xu Yongling, 58, in Nanyang; and Zeng Guangbo, 35, in Deng County. Guangbo escaped two days after he was arrested, and remains in hiding.
The crackdown may last for 30 days and began during China's annual National Religious Working Conference. This meeting brings together top leaders of the state Religious Affairs Bureau and the policy-making United Front Work Department. Both are charged with oversight of religion in China.
During that meeting, communist leaders screened a new, four-hour digital video, The Cross: Jesus in China. China Soul for Christ Foundation of Petaluma, California, produced the series and Yuan Zhiming, a pro-democracy leader and a Christian, wrote and directed it.
Communist leaders were also briefed on Jesus in Beijing, a new book by journalist David Aikman, formerly a Time magazine correspondent in Beijing. Both the video and book document the stunning growth and vibrancy of Christianity in China. The video has been classified as "political matter," and Public Security Bureau officers are confiscating CDV copies of the widely distributed series and other Christian literature.
A source based in Hong Kong told CT that the crackdown will focus on "the people mentioned in the video and the book" and may be as brutal as the recent repression of Falun Gong. China's actions against Falun Gong, a traditionalist sect that emphasizes meditation, resulted in many arrests, imprisonments, beatings, and deaths. A New York-based watchdog group reported that 64 Falun Gong practitioners have died after being tortured inside China since November 2003.
"They will especially hunt those in Beijing," the source said. "It took them by surprise that there were so many Christians in China. Every week pastors are arrested and thrown in jail. The communists see Christians as a threat because there are [more] Christians than Party members."
According to experts, estimates of the total number of Christians varies widely from 30 million to 100 million. The government-registered Christian church (Three Self Patriotic Movement) includes about 28 million followers. There may be as many as 80 million Christians in unregistered congregations. According to Operation World, independent Christian congregations, mostly evangelical and charismatic, are growing at a rate of 9 percent annually. That's a huge growth rate since China's overall population (1.3 billion) is growing at about 0.6 percent annually. China's constitution guarantees freedom of religious belief but requires all religious organizations to register with the government. The government brands those groups that do not register as "illegal" or "cults."
Leaders face hardships
According to another source who asked not to be named, Deborah Xu was arrested on Saturday, January 24, in Nanyang, Henan Province. Around 11p.m. Xu was sleeping on the second floor of her niece's home. Two police officers entered the dwelling and locked the niece's mother-in-law in another room. The officers located Xu, handcuffed her, and took her into custody. Police also confiscated photos and documents.
Xu, a leading figure in China's house churches, is the sister of Peter Xu Yongze, founder of the "born-again" movement of house churches in China with millions of followers. In recent years, police have arrested Deborah Xu numerous times. But on this occasion, family members and supporters have been unable to gain any information about where she is being held, according to CT's source. Nanyang police have not disclosed what charges she faces.
Peter Xu left China in 2000 to seek asylum in the West. He is currently based in the Los Angeles area and is a leader in the new Back to Jerusalem movement. This organization aims to use 100,000 Chinese evangelists and missionaries to spread the gospel westward from China back to the city of Jerusalem.
In early February, Christianity Today interviewed Peter Xu and another prominent house church leader, Liu Zhenying (better known as Brother Yun). Both were in Washington during the annual National Prayer Breakfast. Yun currently is based in Germany.
Xu said his family has been Christian for four generations. "I'm extremely thankful that the Lord made my sister as my spiritual partner. She was called by the Lord when she was 17 years old and dedicated her whole life to the Lord." His sister made that commitment along with a decision to remain unmarried.
"She serves as a beautiful example in the front lines. Brothers and sisters [designate] her as a mother of the church." Her role includes training house church leaders throughout China, especially other women evangelists.
Police in China have arrested both Peter Xu and Brother Yun many times. At age 17 in 1975, Yun was arrested for the first time. Police publicly beat him alongside his mother, also an active Christian. Yun told CT, "The fire of the Holy Spirit in my heart has never ceased in spite of this beating with my mom. Immediately after I was released from the detention center, I started preaching again."
Xu and Yun were in the same prison in 1997. Xu said one day he discovered his cell door unlocked, which he attributes to a miracle. He snuck into the corridor and over to Yun's cell, which could be unlocked from the outside, and he walked inside.
"Our eyes just met each other," Xu recalled. "And I said, 'God wants you to go.' So I ordered him to go and then I closed the door and he left. I started praying, Lord, protect him and let him go." Although he was severely injured from previous beatings and torture, Yun was able to escape.
Within minutes, prison guards had discovered the escape and began searching. But a winter storm started, allowing Yun to flee as guards were searching for their rain gear. "I was completely relieved," Xu said. "I know God used the rain and the snow as Yun's shelter. God has performed a big miracle."
As Yun fled the prison, he thought he was in a dream. He walked up to several iron doors and they opened before him. After he fled, Yun sought asylum in the West. He has told his life story in The Heavenly Man, published in 2002.
I do not pray to nothing Myles, if there were was no tangible evidence of God's existence I would not bother.
I do not think you could convince any of the people in the above stories that they are "wasting their time".
I will continue to pray for you my friend.
God bless
Dave
5:54 AM EST
No, I wouldn't expect to change any devout person's mind. Just as when I was 'born again', nobody could have convinced me of anything I didn't want to hear. But I see it now. I have evolved and put my mind to good use. Honestly, how can you think that your religion is right and the other hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds etc... are all wrong? To my mind, that takes a stellar amount of ignorance. Either that, or you're too happy in your carboard-and-muslin world to investigate anything outside of it.
Please don't misunderstand. I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just being honest with you. All of the stories and allegories you listed in your comment above are very nice and comfy, but they do not prove a thing. To the contrary, in my opinion they bespeak the fascinating creativity of the human mind.
I have noticed that I have brought up a few points or questions to you that you never seem to repond to. For example, as you may know there was a great human culture that existed for about 1,000 years which we call Ancient Greece. Now, I'm sure you'll agree that 1,000 years is a very long time in terms of humanity, especially considering that the average life span was considerably shorter back then. So in this ancient culture, many millions of people were born and then died. And nonethese people ever heard of Jesus. They had their own belief system consisting of many diverse mythological beings. They had their own traditional dances, songs and meals. They had intricate iconography to remind them of their gods, and to bolster their sometimes dejected hearts. My question to you is: What do you think of these people and their religion? How can Jesus say that the ONLY way to enter the kingdom of heaven is to believe in him, when all these trillions of people came and went without ever having heard of him?
I await your reply anxiously.
8:13 PM EST
Hi Notmyles (my name is Not Myles)(friendly joke)
Thank you for your response. I accept totally that you are not trying to insult me, and thank you for saying so.
You ask of me some very valid and important questions, which, in order to give a proper answer, will require from me due consideration. This will take some time for me to prepare, so please bear with me and I will answer your questions in the next few days.
In the meantime, you could visit my blog and read the post about my mother-in law, she gives a fantastic explanation of God's grace, there is also a link to Adrian Warnock's blog, which is full of theological debate.
Above all, I genuinely wish you well, and will pray that you have a productive time whilst you are waiting for Med School (incdentally when do you start)?
God bless
Dave
4:36 AM EST
Hi Notmyles, hope you are well.
I would liked to have done a bit more research, but nonetheless my comments here represent my broad view.
"All of the stories and allegories you listed in your comment above are very nice and comfy, but they do not prove a thing. To the contrary, in my opinion they bespeak the fascinating creativity of the human mind".
You seem to have chosen to dismiss these first hand accounts as "allegories". This is somewhat condescending on your part. They are real events related by real people, many of whom are imprisoned and tortured. If you conduct your own idependent research into events inside China, you will find countless incidents. They are anything but "nice and comfy".
As to the "fascinating creativity of the human mind".
What they speak of is nothing new! All this activity is described and present in the Bible. It is not, cannot be, the product of a fanciful creation of the human mind, as it has been done before.
"My question to you is: What do you think of these people and their religion? How can Jesus say that the ONLY way to enter the kingdom of heaven is to believe in him, when all these trillions of people came and went without ever having heard of him?
Briefly:
Although Jesus is present in both Old and New Testament and is indicated to be the saviour of mankind throughout. He speaks the words you quote when he comes to earth as a man. So you are right that anyone who lived before this could not have had the same knowledge of Jesus as we do.
Prior to this God chose the Jews to be a light to the world; it is certain that the Greek civilisation to which you refer, would have been exposed to Jewish culture and would have known how God had led them out of Egypt into the promised land. The Jews converted many people to God through acts of faith, and there are many examples of this in the Bible (Josephs dreams) for one. Nebuchadnezzar another.
The greek civilisation in question played an instrumental role in spreading the Gospel in later years, as the dominant language, the Bible was translated into it.
I could go into greater detail, but time at present does not permit. If however you are prepared to wait, then let me know and I will do my best
"I await your reply anxiously".
Phi 4:6 "do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God".
God bless
Dave
9:50 AM EST
Hi Dave,
Thanks for writing! You are right that I was being condescending there, and I apologize. You are also right in saying that the world is full of 'countless incidents' of torture and injustice. I didn't mean to dismiss these as unimportant. What I was rejecting was the leap you have taken in deifying the circumstances. In doing so, you only set up a contradictory situation. God is supposed to be loving and forgiving, yet these good people are being tortured. Innocent babies die in plane crashes, and complete assholes sometimes get away with murder. Being a former Christian myself, I know that the proper response to these points is something along the lines of "you must have faith in God's master plan" or something like that. It may be the case, but again I see no real evidence that fits into the bigger picture.
I would like to say here that so long as a religion (or religious ideas) does/do not affect the government of this country, I have no real problem with anyone's personal beliefs. In all honesty, I do think it's actually counterproductive to real personal growth and advancement, but I don't think I have the right to force anyone not to believe in something. Just as I don't have the right to stop someone from smoking a harmful cigarette or from eating a fatty Whopper. Therefore, I can see how a belief in a higher power can be incredibly comforting, especially in some of the heinous situations you describe above. Who am I to tell those people not to take comfort in those beliefs? But by the same token, I don't like being disrespected by the Christian Conservative movement. Some of our most pressing issues should not be affected by religious beliefs, yet they are. If I'm a man who is in love with another man, and we want the same rights and privileges as any other married couple in this country, then nobody's religious beliefs should be able to stop me. Just as my agnostic beliefs should not be able to stop you from praying to Jesus.
Your explanation of the spread of Judaism before the rise of Christianity is interesting. What do you mean Jesus is present in the Old Testament?
Well, I do enjoy discussing this topic, but I feel that we will probably just end up playing a prolonged game of catch; throwing our thoughts back and forth but with no real purpose. I'm sure I won't convince you of anything I believe or feel, and you probably won't convince me of your beliefs either.
2:05 AM EST
Hi Notmyles
"Your explanation of the spread of Judaism before the rise of Christianity is interesting. What do you mean Jesus is present in the Old Testament?"
Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Note the use of the plural "us" here.
This is the first indication of the Holy Trinity working together. there is more than one person present. One of them is Jesus. He is not identified as Jesus at this stage, but later on in the new testament we see that:
Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
In other words; God the Father created the world through his son Jesus, therefore Jesus must have been present at the very outset of the world.
Later in John's gospel we are given even greater revelation about Jesus' role in the Father's plans.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him.
Joh 1:8 He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light.
Joh 1:9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.
Joh 1:11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.
Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Those verses really say it all. EVERYTHING points to Jesus, it is all about jesus, who is to become the substitute for our punishment, satisfying a Holy God's need to punish sin(Jesus takes our sin on his shoulders on the cross).
There are other verses in the old testament that prophesy Jesus' coming as saviour.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
( Immanuel means "God with us")
Isa 11:1 There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit.
Isa 11:2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
Mic 5:2 But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days.
There are other instances, and most theologians agree that the person with whom Jacob wrestles in the following account is Jesus.
Gen 32:24 And Jacob was left alone. And a man wrestled with him until the breaking of the day.
Gen 32:25 When the man saw that he did not prevail against Jacob, he touched his hip socket, and Jacob's hip was put out of joint as he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26 Then he said, "Let me go, for the day has broken." But Jacob said, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."
Gen 32:27 And he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob."
Gen 32:28 Then he said, "Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed."
Gen 32:29 Then Jacob asked him, "Please tell me your name." But he said, "Why is it that you ask my name?" And there he blessed him.
Gen 32:30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, "For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered."
Jesus is present throughout the old testament; he is not named as such until he comes to us in human form, in order to fulfil the promise of the father.
Mat 1:20 But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
Mat 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."
Mat 1:22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
Mat 1:23 "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel" (which means, God with us).
I hope this goes some way to answering your question.
God bless
Dave
5:13 PM EST
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